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In this episode of Financial Behavior Thought Leaders, host Dr. Mary Bell Carlson welcomes special guest Ashley Quamme, a licensed marriage and family therapist, financial behavior expert, and one of Financial Behavior Keynote Group’s exclusive speakers. Ashley is uniquely positioned at the intersection of financial planning and therapy, specializing in integrating financial psychology principles into the practices of financial advisors and their firms. The conversation offers an engaging look at Ashley’s journey from the therapy room to the keynote stage, as well as actionable insights for financial professionals seeking to deepen client relationships and enhance their advisory practices in an increasingly automated world.
The episode kicks off with Ashley sharing the story of how she transitioned from clinical mental health work to speaking and consulting in the financial services arena. With a background shaped by her father’s CPA career, an April 15th birthday, and her marriage to a financial planner, Ashley reflects on the synergy between her expertise and the needs of the industry. She explains how her approach goes beyond numbers, helping advisors understand the human side of money, especially in the context of couples and families.
Mary invites Ashley to demystify what it looks like to integrate financial psychology into everyday advisory work. From revamping discovery processes to developing tools that help uncover client beliefs, values, and motivations, Ashley illustrates the importance of seeing clients as unique individuals and using that understanding to provide more relevant and impactful advice. The discussion also addresses the growing relevance of financial psychology in an era when clients can easily access commoditized information online or through AI, but still crave genuine human understanding.
Ashley previews her popular keynote, “Integrating Financial Psychology into Practice,” emphasizing its core message: understanding client psychology is not just a trend but a necessity for forward-thinking professionals. She shares powerful stories from her work, including a moving account of an advisor facing a client’s deep grief and how being equipped with the right questions and tools can lead to meaningful support. The conversation wraps up with personal insights into Ashley’s life, her family, and her passion for blending heartfelt connection with practical financial skills.
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As a pioneering financial behavior specialist, Ashley is dedicated to revolutionizing the financial advisory industry. Through her practice Beyond the Plan®, Ashley specializes in helping financial firms implement and integrate financial psychology into their practices, elevating client experiences and outcomes. As a therapist, Ashley brings a depth of knowledge to the intersection of finance and psychology. This diverse background allows Ashley to bridge the gap between traditional financial planning and the psychological aspects of money management. In addition to her work with firms, she is also a speaker with the Financial Behavior Keynote Group and host of the Planning & Beyond™ podcast. As a wife and mom of two active pre-teens her nights and weekends are spent on a field or court and in the Starbucks drive-thru.
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1. Financial Psychology is Essential, Not Optional:
Ashley emphasizes that diving into client psychology isn’t just a “nice-to-have”—it’s fast becoming a critical differentiator for advisors. With technology rapidly automating the analytical side of planning, it’s the deeply human elements—understanding values, beliefs, fears, and motivations—that keep advisors relevant and indispensable.
2. Advisors Don’t Need to Be Therapists—But They Need Tools:
Ashley is clear: her keynote is not about turning financial professionals into therapists. Instead, she equips them with practical questions, mindset shifts, and confidence to better support clients during emotional moments, helping them navigate discomfort and stuck points without crossing into therapy.
3. Client Communication Goes Far Beyond the Numbers:
Successful planning isn’t only about analyzing spreadsheets. Ashley walks advisors through upgrading their discovery processes—moving past surface-level questions to understand what truly matters to clients, especially within couples and families, to craft more personalized and impactful plans.
4. Being Comfortable With Client Emotions is a Game-Changer:
Emotional moments are inevitable—clients cry, face grief, or feel stuck. Ashley’s guidance helps advisors become more at ease with these situations. Practical takeaways include simply “being present,” asking open questions, or knowing when a referral might be needed, all while showing up as a compassionate human.
5. Resources and Continued Learning Make Integration Possible:
Ashley offers plenty of support beyond the stage, with a podcast, a blog, and a helpful quiz on her website to determine if hiring a financial behavior officer is right for you or your firm. Advisors looking to build emotional intelligence and client-centric processes have accessible entry points for continued growth.
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00:00 “Financial Behavior Insights Podcast”
05:19 “Integrating Psychology in Financial Planning”
08:34 Emphasizing the Human Element
11:46 Therapeutic Strategies for Financial Professionals
15:00 Advisors Confront Emotional Challenges
17:01 “Advisors Handling Emotional Clients”
21:14 “Holistic Business Growth with Ashley”
Thanks for joining us on this episode of Financial Behavior Thought Leaders. Join us next time for more insightful discussions with the voices influencing the financial industry.
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If you want to blend emotional intelligence with financial expertise—and pick up strategies that actually work in tough client meetings—you can learn more and book Ashley Quamme today!
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Mary Bell Carlson [00:00:11]:
Welcome to Financial Behavior Thought Leaders. I’m Mary, and this podcast takes you behind the scenes with top speakers in financial services. So whether you’re a financial advisor, booking a client event, an event planner looking for a perfect keynote, or a financial professional wanting to learn from industry thought leaders, you’re in the right place. Today, we’re featuring Ashley Kwame, one of financial behavior keynote groups, exclusive speakers, and a licensed marriage and family therapist who specializes in financial therapy. Ashley brings a deeply per human perspective to the world of financial planning. We’ll dive into her journey, explore a little bit more about how she’s helping advisors integrate financial psychology into their practices, and hear a powerful story straight from her talk. Welcome, Ashley.
Ashley Quamme [00:00:55]:
Thanks, Mary. It’s good to be here.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:00:57]:
So before we get in your keynote, I wanna hear and tell us more about how you got started in your speaking career. What led you to the stage?
Ashley Quamme [00:01:05]:
Oh my goodness. A series of following, I guess, the breadcrumb trails is probably the best way. Not where I saw myself, but so glad and so thankful to be here. My journey really started, actually in the mental health clinical space. So as a licensed marriage and family therapist, I’ve been practicing, for about twelve years prior to actually speaking formally, I guess. Mhmm. Although, I guess, as a therapist, you’re always speaking. True.
Ashley Quamme [00:01:35]:
Right? Your audience is just maybe maybe maybe just two. You know? Oh, crap. But, you know, the from therapist, I really then got more interested in financial therapy and in working with financial advisers. And part of that working with financial advisors initially started as doing workshops and trainings on, you know, how to communicate better, how to understand what’s below the waters with with your clients, what are those money beliefs and attitudes. And I really found that I enjoyed that teaching kind of mentoring component, there. I really enjoyed it. It was kind of a one to many that, you know, I didn’t really get as a therapist. You feel like you can kind of make more of an impact there.
Ashley Quamme [00:02:24]:
And so, you know, I I don’t exactly remember the the the moment there, but I remember, you know, being asked to come and do kind of a speaking engagement, and I was very nervous and was like, oh my gosh. Maybe. Okay. Sure. And just kinda jumped in. I know then you and I met not long really kind of after after that. And, yeah, the speaking thing was something that, has really been just, I guess, amazing, jumping jumping in and doing more of it and, being able to, as I said earlier, just impact, you know, impact financial advisers from more of a one to many instead of just a one on one kind of coaching or consulting aspect.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:03:08]:
Well and let’s back up a little bit because your spouse is a financial planner. Right? So you were a therapist really by training. Is that where your interest in financial planning came from, or tell us more?
Ashley Quamme [00:03:20]:
Maybe. Yeah. Probably. So I jokingly although this is it it is true. Like, it’s factually true. My dad is a CPA, and my birthday is April 15. And so and then I married a financial planner. And so it’s almost like I was destined to kind of be in, like, this space.
Ashley Quamme [00:03:41]:
I just took a different path or didn’t maybe realize it in in in some ways. So, you know, that interest in terms of working with advisers, hadn’t really thought about it. Clayton and I naturally in our in our marriage, you know, in work life, we had a lot of overlap in talking about clients’ expert you know, just areas, problems, things like that. And so I don’t know if it was actually interested in financial planning, but really seeing how much overlap there is to the work that I do and the work that he does. And, you know, finding financial therapy and then starting to consult more with advisers there, it just really felt like a direction that I could see myself in and maybe in some ways just was, I said, kind of meant to be all along. I just took an alternative route to get here.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:04:36]:
I love it. Well, the stars all align.
Ashley Quamme [00:04:38]:
They do. Yep.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:04:39]:
Right? So what I’m interested in talking about today is you’ve carved out a really interesting niche. Right? You’ve really blended that idea of financial planning and therapy. You’ve worked, specifically in client communication as a specialty as well as really in the work of couples. So I want you to break down what this actually looks like in practice because we all get it in theory, but I think how do you do this? So talk to us a little bit more of what that looks like to work with clients.
Ashley Quamme [00:05:10]:
Yeah. So in practice, integrating financial psychology really means helping advisors recognize that,
Mary Bell Carlson [00:05:19]:
you
Ashley Quamme [00:05:19]:
know, numbers are really kind of the above the waters or the surface layer of financial planning. And, you know, if we take and kind of look below the waters, beneath all of those spreadsheets and numbers and charts, right, and all of that, there are values, there are beliefs, there’s attitudes, there are emotional patterns that drive decision making in general, but also specifically to financial decisions. And that’s on an individual level, but also on a couple’s, you know, family level as well. And so when I work with financial advisers and their firms as a financial behavior officer or just on a project consulting base, You know, I come in and help them look at their processes. So, for example, their discovery process. And can we go beyond maybe just the standard, like, risk, you know, questionnaire here and really start to uncover who this person is. And I come from the standpoint that good financial planning is really you know, one of the components of that is understanding who the actual person is. And so integrating financial psychology, you know, it’s about understanding all of those values, beliefs, and emotional patterns that I mentioned earlier.
Ashley Quamme [00:06:45]:
But at its core, it’s really about understanding who is this person. Like, what makes them tick? What motivates them? What are their values? What gets them excited? What are their fears? And, you know, through, you know, the work at least that I do, we help to uncover or build out processes or questionnaires or meeting structures, you know, or client experiences or touch points that really help advisers or the firm to kind of answer that question of who is this person and how does knowing about them, how does that help me to be able to give, you know, good financial planning recommendations or create a plan that’s aligned with who they are?
Mary Bell Carlson [00:07:24]:
So, Ashley, I’m curious because we’ve worked with, as a profession. Right? As financial planning, we’ve always worked with people. But it seems like recently, there’s been this kind of surge forward of financial psychology and really understanding, like you said, understanding people, understanding who people are. Why now? Why is that so important now? And how are we how are you seeing that field kind of move forward? Yeah. I mean, I
Ashley Quamme [00:07:53]:
I think all of us at this point in time are aware of AI, and we’ve probably read everything out there. And so not to make this kind of another, right, you know, kind of AI thing here, but let’s be honest. Clients can go and get investment advice. They can go and learn about, you know, general core aspects of financial planning. They really can go get that advice anywhere, right, including including AI. Will it be the best? Probably not. I don’t know. But in general, like, they can go and get that advice from many different other technology platforms.
Ashley Quamme [00:08:34]:
But here’s the thing. What they can’t get from technology is the human element. Right? Somebody who really understands them on an individual level, who understands their complex relationship with money individually, with their partner, within their family system, and then be able to guide them through, you know, transitions like retirement, inheritance, selling a business, divorce, grief, right, death and loss. You know, technology cannot give clients that, but you can, right, as a human. Right? Hopefully, you’re not a robot, yet. But, like, you can deliver that human element to your clients. And so understanding going back to why is this important, understanding and being able to integrate, financial psychology really allows you then to be, that person for your clients and differentiate yourself and, you know, really kind of stay in this game for the long haul.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:09:40]:
Well, you just hit the nail on the head, actually, because that’s what I wanna go to next. It’s your keynote, and it’s called integrating financial psychology into practice. So I’d really like to hear what is the core message of this speech, and who’s it best suited for?
Ashley Quamme [00:09:53]:
You know, I guess maybe to say what I mentioned, you know, just a moment ago differently, the core message really of of this keynote is that financial psychology isn’t just a nice to have thing. It’s not just cool, hip, and and trendy or just fun to learn about. It is becoming absolutely essential for financial advisors who want to remain relevant in an industry that is really becoming more and more automated every single day. And who at least, you know, from an audience standpoint, who this keynote is gonna resonate with, our financial advisors or financial professionals who agree with that, who are maybe more or considered at least right now the forward thinking. Right? I hope that at some point, they’re not forward thinking. That’s just, like, you know
Mary Bell Carlson [00:10:47]:
The norm.
Ashley Quamme [00:10:47]:
Norm. Right? Yeah. But in terms of you know, for right now with where we are, you know, this is gonna resonate with financial professionals who are more forward thinking and who recognize that the future value proposition really depends upon deepening those client relationships beyond just the numbers, beyond just managing assets or providing, you know, general, like, financial planning recommendations.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:11:12]:
So a question for you. If I’m a trad more of a traditional planner and I’ve had clients, and we all know planners too, that are really kind of hesitant of the word financial therapy. Therapy. Therapy especially. Right? Like, that’s a word I don’t wanna touch. And even psychology. Some of these words we use can really shy people away from that experience. So if I’m listening to that keynote as a traditional or even as a client who’s like, I don’t need therapy, what are they gonna get out of this? What are they gonna take away?
Ashley Quamme [00:11:46]:
Yeah. I mean, my hope, one, is that, it’s not delivered in such a way that is, it feels off putting or scary from you know, given that it’s being delivered by a therapist. Right? Mhmm. That’s kinda my my hope here. But for those, you know, more traditional, maybe financial professionals, my hope is that you walk away with at least one insight, one practical tool strategy or question that gives you some level of confidence for being able to go into your next client meeting to understand that person better or to maybe deescalate a tense moment between couples or to help if a client is stuck or having difficulty following through on a planning recommendation. You know, that insurance policy that you told them that they really need to start and go and take out, and, you know, it’s been, like, a year and a half and they still won’t do it, and you’re so frustrated. My hope is is that, you know, if you have clients that are really stuck, that this address, this keynote really helps you to maybe understand what’s behind that stuck point and maybe a strategy or two for being able to help guide that client, from a place of, you know, stuckness to, you know, movement and progress.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:13:11]:
So what I hear you saying is this isn’t you training financial planners to be therapists. No. This is you with your therapy background giving them tools and insights. And maybe it’s one thing that can totally change the way you interact with clients. But by but in order to do that, we still need the therapist. We still need the financial planners. You’re not on a training mission for that. You’re there to help give them the tools you’ve learned.
Ashley Quamme [00:13:39]:
I do not want you to be a therapist unless you want to, and then you should go back to school to do that. I do not want nor would I ask or expect financial professionals to to be a therapist. But I do think that there are certain strategies or questions or just approaches and mindset that come from the psychology world, the mental health world, the counseling world that could be helpful for advisers to maybe just know a little bit about. Not everything. Maybe just a little bit.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:14:10]:
I love it. I love it. Okay. So break us into the speech just a little bit and share with us a story that’s been a big takeaway for audience members.
Ashley Quamme [00:14:18]:
Yeah. One of the one of the stories that I share is about an adviser who reached out to me by email, and they shared that a client had come in. And, please know that names and things like that are are always changed for confidentiality. But the adviser reached out, and a client had come in. He was in retirement, and his wife had passed away a while ago. The adviser knew that, but it’d been about, you know, a year or two. And this client and I’m kind of, you know, making things a little bit more condensed, here just for you and I. But the client had shared that, you know, his vision for retirement included his wife, essentially.
Ashley Quamme [00:15:00]:
And now that his wife has passed, what’s the point? And the adviser, you know, felt obviously I don’t I I wouldn’t say uncomfortable, but just maybe overwhelmed. Like, how like, I don’t know what to do. Like, this client is clearly sharing some emotional struggles here, and it sounds a little bit like there’s some hopelessness. And I don’t know how to I don’t know how to handle that, but I know that something needs to happen. I know that they need something. And he reached out to me, the adviser. Ashley, can you help? And so, you know, that story I like to share because while maybe that particular moment or client story, maybe that’s not entirely true for every adviser, but, undoubtedly, there are those moments, for financial professionals working with clients where they have that feeling of, I know this client needs something. I don’t know what it is, and but I gotta figure this out because I care about them, and and I want to help them.
Ashley Quamme [00:16:05]:
And sometimes the help or knowing what to do can be or can come from knowing how to ask maybe different questions or developing just some internal confidence for navigating deeper emotional, vulnerabilities that clients share. And so, you know, this adviser, you know, he and I jumped on a call and walked him through some things. And, you know, I don’t wanna say, like, oh, like, all was great. Like, solve problems that the world solved here. But the adviser did feel more comf more confident in being able to go back to that client and, you know, have that conversation. And that’s a moment for me that knowing likely what that client was experiencing, possibly some depression, maybe some, you know, suicidal ideation. I don’t know. But that’s a moment for me that has always just that has always stuck with me is that moment with that adviser and that email exchange.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:17:01]:
Well and I think part of this, what you’re doing is helping advisors become comfortable with emotions. I specifically remember an advisor that I was working with have a client meeting, and she came out of it and said, the client is crying. I don’t know what to do. Do I need to turn them over to a psychologist? And I was like, nope. You just need to sit there and hand them some tissue. Right? Like and so I think that’s where I’m hearing. Those are the implementable takeaways from this is learning to sit in those very uncomfortable moments. And they’re probably gonna be very uncomfortable for you, especially if you like spreadsheets.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:17:40]:
Right? For some reason, spreadsheets and feelings don’t go together super well. And so I feel like those are the big takeaways is helping you become more comfortable and know what to say or not to say in those moments and just how to be there, how to show up as a human.
Ashley Quamme [00:17:59]:
So I will do some self promotion. So I have a podcast planning and beyond. And what you just said, Mary, is one of the things that I say at the end of every episode is finances don’t have feelings, but your clients do, which is essentially what you’re kind of talking about here. Right? Like, the numbers, they don’t have feelings, but your clients do. And given that you work with both numbers and clients, right, it is important to know how to navigate the emotional side, of that.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:18:28]:
Well and you do have some other tools on your website as well to be able to kinda help navigate that. Will you share a bit with us?
Ashley Quamme [00:18:35]:
Yeah. So I have a blog, that’s that’s, you know, that’s on there that you can check out. There is, as I mentioned, the podcast, Planning and Beyond. And then there’s also a quiz that you can take, for being able to decide or know is having a financial behavior officer, is it right for you, right for your firm? So those are some resources there, that you can check out. They’re all listed there on the website.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:19:03]:
Awesome. We’ll make sure and include those in the show notes. Now, Ashley, for this final part, I wanna really dig in to getting to know you a little bit more. And so tell us something that maybe others don’t know that’s unique to Ashley.
Ashley Quamme [00:19:17]:
This is always, like, a scary question and, like, loaded. Right? Like, a loaded question. So I’ll share just maybe a few kind of personal things. These might be really, like, boring. I don’t know, like, how exciting they are. But I’ve already shared about Clayton, my husband. You know, he’s a financial professional. We have two kids.
Ashley Quamme [00:19:37]:
They are 11 and 12, very active sports travel sports family, so we’re crazy. We are those crazy people that travel for sports on the weekend and love it. I always wanted to be a I always wanted to be a soccer mom, and, literally, I wanted to have a minivan. I wanted my kids to play soccer. I wanted to cut up orange slices, and I wanted to scream, like, on the sidelines for them, and that is what I do.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:20:03]:
So you’re living your biggest dreams.
Ashley Quamme [00:20:04]:
Right? Yep. I do have the minivan. My son plays soccer. My daughter plays volleyball. I don’t cut up orange slices because it’s, I guess, not cool anymore to cut orange slices and then put them in your mouth and then smile, you know, like the big smile. I guess it’s not cool. So now we have the little, like, Mandarin cuties that you peel. So, you know, I peel Mandarin cuties now instead of cutting orange slices.
Ashley Quamme [00:20:29]:
But, you know, love love my kids, love my family. We’re you know, love being really involved.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:20:35]:
And I hear you know how to yell from the sideline.
Ashley Quamme [00:20:38]:
I I absolutely know how to yell from the sidelines. So we enjoy being out at the lake as well, when it’s warmer. So we live down here in Georgia. It stays warm pretty much the year, so I enjoy getting out there. I don’t water ski, but we have a Zupp board, and it’s kinda like knee boarding a little bit. And I enjoy getting out there and, seeing how old I feel, every year. So it’s kind of a how old do I feel that tells me.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:21:07]:
That starts to tell you, like, that age is approaching. Right.
Ashley Quamme [00:21:11]:
For sure. For sure.
Mary Bell Carlson [00:21:14]:
Well, Ashley, thanks so much for joining us. And if you’re looking for someone who can offer a holistic approach to your business growth, it’s someone who blends emotional with psychological sides of money with practical skills, Ashley Kwame is a powerful addition to your next event. You can learn and book more at financialbehaviorkeynote.com. And don’t forget, Ashley has that free quiz and a guide to help you start integrating financial psychology into your own practice, and we’ll drop that link in your notes. Alright, everybody. Thanks for joining us on Financial Behavior Thought Leaders, and we’ll be back soon with conversations that bring you closer to the leading voices in financial services. Thanks, everyone.
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