The Speaker Success Toolkit: Turning Speaking Into Visibility with Allie Zendrian

Hey, I am Mary Bell Carlson, and I am so excited to be with you today on the Speaker Success Toolkit. This is a mini series of financial behavior thought leaders. And this series is actually going to help you figure out what makes a speaker more successful, how you build your talk, how you become stronger beyond the stage, and really what it looks like behind the scenes. So today, a piece of that puzzle is going to get the PR and visibility.

So I'm excited to be joined by Allie Zinjigan. Allie comes to us from A to Z Communications, and she helps thought leaders and speakers turn their expertise into credibility. So if you've ever wondered why some speakers might be found everywhere, featured, quoted, invited back, PR is usually a big part of that story. Allie, I want to dive right in and brought something up that I think you said is important for speakers.

How should people be leveraging conferences for PR opportunities?

So Mary, first of all, thank you so much for having me. And I've learned so much from you and your group. So thank you for the opportunity to do that. So in terms of conferences, the thing that I've realized and grown frustrated with is that people sort of just look at the stage as the opportunity instead of like the conference overall, the ecosphere is the opportunity. So yes, you might be speaking up on stage, which obviously is fabulous and not to detract from that, but.

you know, if you're at a conference, likely there are reporters who are at the conference. So have you made it a point to, you know, let them know that you're going to be there, let them know that you could be interviewed about X, Y, and Z so that you're getting a two-fer or a three-fer out of your opportunity? So I think looking for more bang for the buck than just, you know, I'm up on stage, I gave my speech and then my speech ended. What's the opportunity to then get that speech to continue to live on and, you know, do more for you?

And let's back up for a second because sometimes we use the word PR public relations and I don't know that I knew before I met you really what that meant and entailed. So could you back us up and explain what PR is, how it's different from marketing and why people need it?

So I don't blame you at all. feel like a lot of people, it gets conflated very easily and it's kind of understandable because increasingly we're encroaching on each other's territory between PR and marketing. But I guess easily the way that I look at it as is that, you know, if I'm going to get one of my clients into the media, I basically have to use my smile and my talents and their abilities to get them into the media versus.

Mm-hmm.

On the marketing side, there's usually some kind of dollar, a budget that's helping you get there. And you're also controlling the message. So you have those advertisements that you wrote yourself and you can get that narrative exactly the way that you want it. In public relations, you really have to have your phrasing in a way that the reporter is going to remember exactly the way that you wanted it said, or make that impression on them that they want to use your language in their publications.

So that's really the difference. So it's that third party validation, but we have to do it through a client's credibility and their skills and their ability to do good interviews.

Well, and I think that's one of the things I love about you is you don't just talk the talk, you walk the walk. So back us up and tell us where you came from. How did you get into PR?

Well, thank you. That's so nice. So I started my career off as a reporter. So I, in college, I knew that I wanted to, I was an English major. I knew that I wanted to write in some capacity, but actually thought I was going to do fictional writing. Went to a fiction writing class. I have no creativity whatsoever, apparently. So I leaned back on the fact that in high school and college, I was on the newspaper and I just loved copy editing.

So then put myself forward, started writing for the newspaper, but then realized as a senior, gosh, like I've taken basically all the journalism classes that I possibly can, and I don't feel like I'm educated enough or good enough to earn a spot at a newspaper. So got my master's degree in newspaper journalism at NYU. And then interestingly, fell into business as the area that I was gonna focus most of my career on. So I went to Institutional Investors Wall Street Letter, and then Forbes in the street.

and then sort of realized that I didn't like the direction that journalism was going or my part in journalism was going. So switched to the other side of the table and figured those skills are relatively transferable. And now I tell stories for my clients.

And I love the fact that you've seen it from the back end so you know how the industry works. You know what they're thinking. You know how to get your audience in front of the right people. And I think that's kind of leads to my next question. What problem are you really solving for speakers when they come to you?

So I think the problem is that, you know, that speech sort of lasts in its moment. So at the same time that, you know, you would know better than I would, but the number of hours and dedication and whatnot that you put into that opportunity that lasts, you know, a half hour, an hour, 20 minutes, whatnot.

Mm-hmm.

You could take that and multiply it. So the same way that you might see people who are doing a podcast like yours, and then split that up into smaller clips so that it continues to live on. You could take that same presentation and make it into a thought leadership article, taking one avenue from what you were speaking about. You could then use that as an opportunity to get pitched to reporters and be interviewed on your subject matter. So it's just finding the creativity to say,

Yes, this could die on the vine in the sense that my speech lives on in the people who listen to me. And obviously that's wonderful too. But if I could find a way to get that message to broaden out a little bit more and have a greater impact, why wouldn't I take that?

Absolutely. And I think here too, I want to know where do you see speakers getting stuck when they think about PR in the right way? Where does it kind of get stuck and they don't know where to take the next step?

So, and I hope that it's okay that I lean on you. But so as we had interactions probably about a year ago, I think you had said something like, well, how do people get these awards? And like, look, there are plenty of times that someone is just so amazing, they get nominated for award and they get it. But also the way that you get things in life is you apply for them. Like you put that energy out there and you do it for yourself. So,

finding those ways to say, I want something, how is it that I'm going to make that happen versus just presuming that it's going to happen for me? So, you know, if you want to be featured in the news media, how are you going to make those connections with a reporter? How are you going to have a topic that is going to be interesting enough to them that they want to interview you about? So just taking that initiative and taking it a little bit further.

Well, and I will be the first to say that I was came to you very ignorant in this space and said, Hey, I don't even know what you do. Why does this matter? And what, comes along with it? And so I remember thinking, if you're good enough, you just get nominated. Like I didn't know how, and I'll give you a quick example. remember for a long time thinking, I really want to be nominated for the 40 under 40. And so I was just like a little hamster on a wheel, working as hard as I could.

No.

Great.

and I hit 40 and it just never came to be. Yeah, big surprise there, hit 40. But it just never came to It never came to be and I was like.

I never would have guessed.

Where did I miss that? Like, how did that not work? And it just, as I've worked with you these last several months, I've been realizing, you go for the opportunity and it is someone there helping you to end and really close those deals, right? Like, it's one thing to have an idea. It's another thing to have a really an agent, a PR agent working by your side, making sure that those things actually come to pass. And I think that's the big difference I've seen.

I want you to dig in a little bit and share a story of a speaker that you've worked with who you've seen has made a real shift in how they approach PR.

So first of all, to give you credit, I don't think that it's unfair for you to think that you just get an award because you do good. Because I operated under the same premise that if you just put your head down and you do a really good job, you get promoted. The good things come for you because you did the work. But the problem is sometimes you become that best kept secret that just does the work. And because you're not the, look at me, I just did XYZ and I accomplished this. I'm just head down doing my work. It just doesn't happen for whatever reason. You get overlooked.

Yes.

So rather than being that overlooked, know, excuse me, I just did a fabulous job. Would you like to come see? So I think that that's the gist of what PR is really.

Well, and let me just put it in there too. I really like the fact that it's not me having to do it because I think that's something difficult, at least for me, has been to self promote. It just hasn't ever come naturally. And quite frankly, I don't feel like it's authentic. And so it really helps to have you outside and say, Hey, there is this event, there's this opportunity, et cetera. Let's put you forward for it. And that feels much more comfortable to me.

Yeah.

No. Yes. Yes. Well, and it's thanks to you, if I'm being quite honest. So I've been fortunate to work with Dr. Christy Archuleta, who is amazing. And speaking of awards, actually just won an award with investment news. So yay to Christy. But so it's been a great opportunity working with her and seeing her work in family in financial therapy.

All right, now I want you to share that story, because I know you've got a good one.

Yeah.

and seeing what she's capable of. So I, with you, reviewed the areas that she speaks on and we were able to leverage some of those into thought leadership articles. To be honest, actually, if it hasn't come out yet, it's going to be coming out soon in Barron. So check out for that. So using those topics and then pulling on the string a little bit and writing an article there, she was able to get that award, which is fabulous. So taking those opportunities and then

spinning it so that you're creating more out of it than just what it is. But it's also been great with her, you know, so I think most speakers on your in your community have about four, three or four topics that they write on. But, you know, on the PR side, you realize within that, like, there's so much that you could really pull on. So, you know, her expertise is really very wide. So you can still extrapolate from that, you know.

financial advisors stress and burnout. You can go in this avenue, you can go in that avenue. So she's been a true pleasure to work with and I thank you for that opportunity to have it.

Well, and I'll tell you on the back end of it, what we've seen just leaving the last five months of this is the payoff has gone further. feel like it's a bit of a, an approach where it's multiple layers that are starting to come to fruition. And so maybe we'll, you ought to take people behind the scenes a little bit of what it's like to work with a PR agent. I know when we first got started, there was a lot of kind of back and forth and you getting to know Christie and

what she talked about and how it worked and things that worked in her voice. And that took a little bit of time. And then we started to hit our stride, I'd say about three months in, we started to see some things really kind of come through. And now after several months of working together, not only are we seeing things come through, but we're seeing things from the past even push her forward. so I would say when working with a PR agent, of the falsehoods is, I'm gonna try it for a month.

And we're going to see what happens. And if it doesn't work in a month, we're done. And PR I have found does not work that way. It's really a long-term gain. So really think that you're running more of a marathon than you are a sprint here. And with every stride, like every mile marker that you're hitting, it's kind of propelling you into that next event because they do play off of each other. What's that been like for you as the PR agent side in working?

Is that typical of most paths in PR?

Yes. So first of all, so you have learned so much and that was so well put. So kudos to you on that clap there. But you succeed, let's be honest. But yeah, to your point. So look, there are some clients that you get and whether it's just, you know, all the forces came together or their topic is so timely all of a sudden, you know, whatever national event so happens to speak to what it is that they're doing that yes, you can, you know, get somebody placed in a major publication quickly.

Thank you. I tried.

And sometimes that happens. More often than not, it does take that learning back and forth of understanding, OK, well, your expertise is related around advisor burnout. So what exactly does that mean? So would you want to cover this area that's, you know, tangential to it, but not really? No, actually, I don't feel like I want to comment on that. That doesn't serve my purpose. OK, no problem. Then let's but it takes having those conversations and going back and forth. And I think whether it's all PR people or whether it's just because of my reporter background.

Hmm.

I like to listen to people talk and then those bells go off and say like, yeah, but they're like, that's a really good opportunity. I would want to write an article if I still could. So, you know, it takes a while of having those conversations and I would encourage somebody, especially if you're going to start doing PR.

have the goal in mind at first. So I think it's really important. Sometimes we do PR just for the sake of PR of like, you know, I wanna get an article and that would be a life goal. And you know, that's totally fine. But if your goal is also, you know, I wanna eventually write a book. I want to get on more national stages. I want to spread into this area of the country. Like there are different tactics and different paths that you're going to take to get there.

Mm-hmm.

So to your point of, you know, sometimes you don't see something happen in a short period of time, it could be because you don't have the end game in mind. So if you know that somebody wants to go by coastal all of a sudden, but you're not pitching the other coast, well, yeah, then it's not going to work out, but because we weren't keeping our eye on what the prize is.

Mmm.

Well, and I think one thing I've really liked in working with you has been the fact that we aren't seeing all the things coming out. We aren't seeing the trends. We really are buried with our head in the sand. And I'm speaking on behalf of speakers. You're really buried in your work, right? You're buried in your research. You're buried in your presentations. You're buried in doing the next thing. And what I've loved from you is you'll come in at the hundred thousand foot level and say, hey, this is happening. Here's an article. Let's write it.

And you've been able to pitch stuff for Christie specifically that we hadn't even come across our radar screen that we weren't even tracking. And so it puts us in areas that say, Hey, this is the next level to take it. The other thing I think that's a key word is the word thought leadership. You know, that gets thrown around a lot these days. feel like back.

10 years ago, it was, you're an expert. Well, now everyone's an expert on YouTube. And so now we're hearing a lot more of this idea of thought leadership. And I want to spend a little bit of time here, what that actually means, because I'm seeing that really come to play in working with you of true thought leadership. So let me pause there. You tell us more of what your thoughts are on thought leadership and how to get there.

Yeah, so thank you for that. So in terms of thought leadership, I would say that this is taking your expertise and sort of either matching it with the trends that you're seeing in the industry or matching it with a national news event or other opportunity. So to your point of like the 10,000 foot view, it's one of those opportunities where an outsider's perspective sometimes can just reignite everything and make you realize like, yes, you know, I have been very dedicated on this research, but this research has, you know, a much bigger impact.

than what I would have thought. So I think it's marrying your expertise with something that's going on that people might be interested in, or it could be just looking at those emotional aspects. So looking at something like advisor burnout. So yes, arguably that's timely all the time and unfortunately so, but especially toward the end of the year as we're all just sprinting toward, my God, like I just have to get those last statements in, I gotta do my tax loss harvesting, I gotta.

Okay, but you know, now I've hit my very end and like literally I am burnt. There is there's nothing left. So it's it's a timely topic that people will care about and it's a big issue that can impact so many people.

when you're able to navigate what's in vogue, what's out of vogue, how to pitch the actual topic itself. Because a lot of times we would just say, yeah, this is very interesting because it's interesting to me. But you're able to see it through a PR perspective and really a journalist perspective and say, does this even have legs? And if not, how do we shape it to give it legs so it would actually be able to take off? So two things I want to go from here. I think a lot of people hear the word PR and automatically think,

Thank you.

it costs too much, it's not for me. So how, first off, explain how PR works on a cost perspective, and then how does this become more, how could an everyday speaker really take it to help them move to the next level?

So I think this is where at least the PR that I've seen and I don't want to pretend that I've seen everything, but especially in the agency world, it does come across as being very expensive. And to be honest, as I was starting my own business two years ago, it made me think if I can't afford to get the PR that I'm giving, is that really right? So yes, there is an assumption that something's going to cost anywhere from five to 10 to 20 to...

Hmm.

very big numbers and sometimes it does and sometimes that's warranted because the situation is very complex. The company is very big. There are lots of different things that are happening. But if you're talking about, you know, one speaker and one person, you can look at different companies and see their cost structure. I specifically do. I have a retainer model for some clients and that makes sense. And in some cases I do an hourly model because I think that that's the right thing to do. And if you only need this much help, you should only pay this much money.

So, you know, there are people and professionals, especially who are leaving bigger agencies and, you know, are willing to work with people and want to have that kind of impact on a person because it is great to see somebody go from here to here that will help you and will do it on a more cost understanding basis.

Well, and I do have to just make a quick comment here because inside the community, if you are part of our community, Ali has been very gracious to give a amazing deal for our community members. And so if you're wanting to just dabble in PR and get to try it out a bit, I would say come inside the community, get these great rates with Ali, and then you can kind of take it to the next step.

Okay, I want to make it really practical if someone's saying, hey, I'm not ready to hire somebody yet. So could you give us one or two things that somebody listening today could do right now to leverage their own PR for speaking?

Yes. So I also, you know, as much as I want to say that myself and other PR professionals are, you know, we're very skilled and we're adept and this is something that nobody else can replicate. Like, let's be honest, to a certain extent people can and people are trying with AI. You know, in some cases it's working out, in some cases it's not really. so I would say something that the everyday speaker or even everyday person could do for themselves is so get to know the reporters who are covering the topic that you want to be featured in.

And then, you know, look for those opportunities to A, get to know them on some kind of personal level, whether that's, you know, reading an article that they've written and commenting about how you thought it was great, or you thought that had you been included, you would have said XYZ, that's setting yourself up for, you know, a follow-up story.

But I think it's also finding those opportunities if you're going to be traveling somewhere, if you're going to a conference, be aware of who else is going to be there. There are so many now different kinds of media. So we're not just talking about the traditional Wall Street Journal and whatnot. There are bloggers and there are podcasters and there are lots of different people that you could meet and leverage your story with them.

Just look for those opportunities, see who's trending on LinkedIn and who seems to be covering what you're talking about and go make friends.

Well, and I think you've hit the nail on the head of why a PR agent, it's the relationships. That's really, really what you're leveraging there, is that relationship element. And I would say that's true on the speaking agent side. Like any kind of an agent, it's the relationships and their network that you're tapping into. And so if you're saying, hey, yeah, I can go make, go try. And if it doesn't work,

there's a reason that PR agents are there is because they've spent the time and taken the effort to be able to build those relationships so that when a journalist reaches out, there's already a relationship built. They know they can trust that content. We've seen that definitely on our end that and Chrissy's even remarked to me of Ali's been able to get in places we'd never be able to get in where we just don't have the relationships in. So that's I would say that's a key part of it. So yes, if you want to try it yourself, absolutely.

at the same time know that that's really what you're spending. Now, you do have resources to help people who want to do it themselves. We always have those DIYers. And so that would be great. Tell us a little bit about what you have for people who want to do it themselves.

So first, before I go there, so I just want to comment that I think that in your business as well as my business, the relationships really matter because when you're thinking about it, you know, so if you're a reporter, in some cases, you literally have like an hour, two hours, three hours of a deadline to get a story accomplished. Are you going to take a chance on somebody who like may or may not be good? They may or may not be available. They or do you want to go with the surefire thing? I need to get this done. What not?

I need to go. So I'm going with my sure bet. Same thing with you. I mean, if you're going to be booking somebody for an event, do you want somebody who you know is going to show up and be prepared and be amazing? Or do you want to go with the unknown?

Well, and let's be honest, everyone tells me how amazing they are, right? And I think that's the same thing that journalists get is I am absolutely amazing. But as you get to know people over time, which let's be honest, Sally, a lot of the reason I built this community is to get to know speakers, to be able to say, hey, this is a person that I can trust, that I know the qualities there, the contents there, and they show up, right? Like there's a lot of trust that has to be built both ways. And so for me, the having that community has been a valuable part.

Mm-hmm.

them.

of seeing who I can trust inside that speaking community and who I'm taking up to the next level and who's ready to move to the next level. And you just don't get that from an email interaction or a, I met you for 30 minutes one time and I said I was great. And I think that's really what journalists are looking for too is who is someone, especially with harder deadlines these days, they've got to be quick turnarounds. And so it really matters when it comes to relational side of things. Thank you for bringing that point up.

Of course, I'm happy to. You deserve all the flowers and kudos and more. But so to get back to your point about DIYers, so I did create the A to Zs of public relations. So I want to give people the skills either A to wholesale, do it yourself if you would like to, or at the very least be an educated consumer. That has been one of those things where as I got out on my own, you realize how many people get sold into the big vision or I need to do X, Y and Z.

Well, maybe, maybe not. Maybe you could do ABC and ABC would be just as good if not better. So I did create, it's a series of video content. It goes from everything to, should I do PR? Am I suitable for it or not? There are some people who aren't, but the key is basically if you feel like you don't wanna put your viewpoint out there and be bold like that, this is probably not for you. Also, if you feel like, know, look my...

my business for whatever reason is very seasonal or I only have something to say every now and then. Okay, then I wouldn't sign up with an agency and go for a year long contract if you're going to have something to say like three times a year. So just using those opportunities and then going through things like media training and thought leadership and whatnot. So thank you for that opportunity to spread awareness.

Yeah. Yeah.

Love it.

Absolutely, and I think that's important is that if you are curious, there's more education out there and then it can get you to the place that maybe or maybe not, maybe you decided to go on your own or maybe you decide, I really do need somebody. Okay, to wrap this up, I would love for you to tell us one thing that you could leave with our audience, especially speakers who want to grow their visibility. What is one thing they could start right away that would make a difference?

So I think the biggest thing that they could do is you have your existing body of content. You have, you know, whatever presentation it is that you're going to be going to XYZ location and giving for them. Look at it under the lens of, know, what else can I do with this? So yes, I created a 30 minute long speech. It's got however many slides. Can I take three or four of those slides and reshape that into an article? Can I take maybe one of those slides? And that would be a really good topic for me to pitch a reporter and have them interview me about.

Mm-hmm.

because it's a timely topic or something that just sounds very interesting. Just take your existing body of work and try to look at it from the lens of, know that there's more that I can do with this. Just let me figure out how exactly.

I love it. Thank you so much. Allie, this has been a great conversation. And if this is an important layer of the toolkit, I really want to emphasize how important it is to not just deliver a great talk, but as Allie said in very beginning, being sure that it's got a megaphone to be able to translate well beyond the stage and hit more opportunities for future. In the next episodes, we're going to keep building on this idea and we're going to hit on how speakers really extend their impact and become consistently more referable.

If you liked this episode and it made you think differently about the work, we'd love for you to subscribe to the show and share the episode. And if you're looking for a place to continue these conversations with Allie and other speakers who are really building intentionality, you can learn more at financialbehaviorkeynotegroup.com slash community. That's financialbehaviorkeynote.com slash community. All right. Thank you so much for joining us and we will see you next time.

Thank you.